(1000-3000+ Sq Ft Homes), Thermostat Says Heat On But No Heat? 14 Culprits To Check For Now, MMBTU To MMSCFD Calculator For Natural Gas + Chart, 8 Best Infrared Heaters For Indoors, Patios, Garages (With ECO Thermostats), AGM Battery Voltage Charts: 12V, 24V Deep Cycle Battery Voltage, Lead-Acid Battery Voltage Chart For 6V, 12V, 24V, 48V Batteries, Natural Gas MMSCFD To MMBTU/Day Calculator + Chart. Timers and wifi sockets are quite cheap. Turn off the recirculation when the house is not occupied, in order to save even more energy. Circulation pumps can wreck havoc on your lines if you run them constantly due to friction at bends causing pinhole leaks. What I imagined would happen is 3-4 seconds of cold and then super hot water that was just waiting for me from the recirculation. I have a new Noritz tankless water heater that includes an AquaMotion recirculating pump at the heater and a crossover valve under the kitchen sink. First, place a thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. Where does this (supposedly) Gibson quote come from? Free returns are available for the shipping address you chose. Therefore, when it malfunctions, it is a sign that the heater has another major underlying issue. Turn off the device and examine the APSs condition. Continue with Recommended Cookies. You will see in the photo that the cold water valve shuts off water into the domestic water inlet but doesn't have a shut off into the circulation water inlet. Check to see if the water valves are open. Once again, there are a few different things it could be. Return this item for free. Is it possible to create a concave light? Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Refer to the user manual to locate the Hot Button and then press it to activate hot water recirculation. Also the unit needs to be set to utilize the recirculation feature. We want to reduce waste in using water given our well situation. Here is the final install. The disadvantages of recirculating pumps include waiting for cold waters (its a less-known disadvantage), having to install additional wiring, and so on. The pump works on the existing pipes; it basically sends the leftover water back to the boiler or the heater. Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? This depends on how long you leave it on and how often you use it. On-Demand Mode. 10.6 Maintenance 10.7.3 NPE-180A/240A Pump P-Q Curve The Navien NPE-180A and NPE-240A water heaters that are used . This type of hot water recirculation system is most appropriate for new homes; homes that are in the 3rd or 4th part of the building process. A loose part causing unnecessary vibrations, Vacuum in the water lines causing vibrations, A dirty flow sensor leading to gas flow interference and producing weird noises. DC Wire Gauge Calculator: What Gauge Wire (12V, 24V, 48V)? Brand: Navien. We were advised of this upon installation. Lets look at the individual parts that make up the recirculation pump for hot water: If you want to install a recirculation pump, you start by getting the whole recirculating pump kit. But, you can buy a new recirculating pump for $200-400. The remote control module sits beside this area (I have it floating but I'll put double stick tape and mount it to the interior soon) and the antenna lead drops through a grommet (conveniently already available at the bottom of the unit near the pcb) to the outside. air), Latent Heat (BTU/hr) = 0.69 x CFM x gr. Not sure I am understanding. The error code E441 informs about the open thermistor or short circuit problem. These processes are so easy that you can even install a water recirculating pump by yourself! Navien Tankless Water Heater Manuals - Find Them Here! - Hoffmann Brothers NaviCirc Recirculation Valve | Navien Navien Flow Sensor. IF it does, could it be controlled remotely? This serves two functions: This is also true for tankless water heaters. Therefore, the only task you can attempt on this list is the gasket replacement for the leaking water connection. Remove the front cover of the water heater. Weve tried to include every concern you might have regarding turning off the water recirculating pump. How to Troubleshoot a Circulator Pump Not Working | Hunker Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. However, some gas needs to be used to heat water for the pump to circulate; the gas usage for this is pretty much insignificant relative to how much gas we use when powering the instant hot water heater. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. Reassemble the heater and turn on the hot and cold water valves. Question: How much does it cost to buy a water recirculating pump? Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. 5.0 out of 5 stars 3 ratings. Our goal here at GridSub is to help you find viable solutions to different off-grid problems. Some sort of noise out of your Navien recirculation pump is normal. Dont hesitate to switch the tees around if you get them backward. It means there is some issue with the flow sensor or switch. Also you need not be concerned about pump damage. Crazy coincidence that I ran into your post because I've been researching the same issue. You are using an out of date browser. Eric Alvarez is an HVAC guy based in El Paso, Texas, United States. That means that all the costs of the hot water circulation pump are covered by the water savings. A place for plumbing advice and help. You can tell because the cold supply line is connected to the circulating return. If you are unsure of whether the recirculation pump was correctly installed, contact Navien technical center or the NSS agent who installed the heater. There are several ways to do it. To remedy this issue, turn off the heater for some time and restart it. Are these pumps just a luxury that enables you to get hot water lightning fast, or do they actually save you money? Any tips on where to verify if I have a dedicated return line? So, there is such a thing. Navien NR-240A heating issues Heating Help: The Wall Is there a check valve? Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. That means that this household wasted 8 gallons of water per day just waiting for hot water. Hello David, well, the additional costs are a con here. When the water is sufficiently hot, the temperature sensor will shut off the power to the recirculation pump to conserve energy. . There are special tankless water heater recirculation pumps for Navien, Rinnai, and Rheem units; we will cover them all. Check this too: Electric RV Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide I have an NR240A for about 10 years now. The exhaust is overheating. You need a crossover valve installed under one of your faucets that is far away from the water heater (there are a few different styles but they all have four connections and get installed under a faucet). I installed this system a few days ago and I've been trying to trouble shoot the noise that's coming from the re-circulation pump. Take care! You can contact a plumber if necessary. Patrick. A while ago we had a plumber/friend install a Navien tankless water heater. Do Tankless Water Heaters Needs Recirculation Pumps? If you have come back from a vacation, first turn on the main water valve. I have a clog, When the faucet is on the unit is indicating flow rate of 1.4 GPM which seems plenty and the recirculation mode is set to external & always on. Parts that will actually be used depend on what kind of hot water recirculation pump you have. Rather than using the hard wired door bell style push button that comes with the kit, I bought this remote control unit (. Below are different Navien water heater error codes and their solutions; Navien error code 003 how to fix indicates that there is an ignition failure in your unit. I agree the user manuals are very helpful. Your Navien Recirculation Pump will make a humming noise like a refrigerator if you dont bleed the air out of the recirculation system. But, making sure youre doing it the right way is important. Is this correct for the function of the system? Can a Hot Water Recirculating Pump cause low water pressure? Tankless Water Heater Wire Size Calculator: What Gauge Wire (AWG)? The cold water pipe coming from the wall goes into the domestic water inlet on the tankless heater, as it should. Here is a list of advantages associated with hot water circulating pumps: Now lets have a look at the disadvantages of these pumps: Needless to say, recirculation pumps are not free. Navien NPE-240A2 Pump Noise. : r/Plumbing - reddit Is there a way to tell if the cold pipe is circulatory/return line or cold water from the mains? The DIP switch setting has some problems. Navien Recirculation Pump Noise [4 Easy Solutions] At the same time, someone is in the kitchen doing the dishes. It usually occurs due to an open or shorted sensor. Separate Recirculation Pumps. How Does A Hot Water Recirculation Pump Work? Now, we have to check if these costs are balanced out by the water savings. Solutions like- unplugging it, using a timer and using wifi sockets are convenient. Plug n play (after removing front panel to access the plug). (std. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. You can replace the sensor if needed. You May Forget to Purge The Recirculation Pump, 03. Most of information is available in the install manual but some of it requires a phone call to Navien support. Only 19 left in stock - order soon. What You Should Know Before Shutting off the Water https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-DC-MOMONTROL-RM11-/350575987090?hash=item519ff50992, Navien NPE-240A2 External circulation question, Navien NPE-240A and HotButton - DIP switches and parameters, Flushing Navien 240A set up for external bypass, Navien NPE External Recirculation Confusion. Most importantly, the installer fails to mount the pump on the vibration isolators. Difficulties with estimation of epsilon-delta limit proof. It's unfortunate he's not around to explain all this to you. Recirculation Tankless Water Heater - NRCR | Noritz The whole point of installing such a pump is to get hot water fast. Any thoughts on that? link to How to Connect a Generator to Your Tiny House Without a Transfer Switch, Electric RV Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide, Richmond Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide, Insinkerator Hot Water Dispenser How-to & Troubleshooting Guide. Then, tighten up the cap again once you remove all the air from the loop. It also may be as simple as a dip switch in the tankless unit itself. To calculate the size of the heater, you will need to add up the amount of water required at a particular time. Navien Recirculation Settings: Everything You Should Know By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Or invest in a larger water heater. We have a standard gas hot water heater with a circulating pump. You mentioned that in the summer months your can turn off the recirculation pump. they have an accessory called the HotButton (PZZZ-00046). Hello Sam, you can shut off the recirculating pump to the kitchen faucet. Lets hop in! The recirculation pump will make a squeaking noise if the installer fails to install the primary loop correctly. Question: Can a recirculating pump last for 10-15 years?Answer: If you use it properly, it should last at least 10-15 years. For example, if you have a person showering and another individual shaving. Call Navien and explain if yours is older. 30000466A Navien Circulation Pump NAPU9GLPCT33 - amazon.com What disadvantages, beside cost???? First, open and close the pressure relief valve, which is located near the units outlet. Of course, the most important part is the pump itself, so well start with that: These are the standard building blocks of every recirculation pump for getting hot water quickly. I am guessing that he only returned the HOT line, hence the delayed time in "INSTANT HOT", as the Naviens are sold as well as there 96% efficiency!! For more information, please see our Remove the screw that secures the air intake filter and then remove the filter. Yes, you can turn off your hot water recirculating pump. Place a bucket underneath it to catch any water that drains when you remove the filter. They are not without upfront costs or disadvantages, but they do offer the luxury of having hot water almost instantaneously and they save you a lot of water. However, whenever I turn on the cold water at the kitchen sink the tankless unit starts to run (heat water) even though I dont want heated water. The air will need to be bled out of the system. Read the users Navien nr-240a manual to get information on how to flush the heat exchanger and reset the remote for Navien tankless water heater. 1. Is a Hot Water Recirculating Pump Worth It? 10 Pros and Cons - Your H2Home I was under impression that with the recirculation pump this wouldnt be an issue (the wait time) and the fact that the water is just warm otherwise feels wrong. You can crack open the manual for your tankless heater and check if it comes with that option. Remove the filter from the plastic assembly and clean it with a toothbrush, and clean running water. Second, you can use a flex connector to isolate the pump. These are the kinds of issues that can occur if you aren't aware of the automatic appliances that are connected to your system (and don't shut them off along with the water). Then remove the cold water filter off located next to the cold water isolation valve. If you have any questions about these pumps, how they work, or some calculations, you can give us the specifics in the comments below and well try to help you out. Solution: Ensure all return and supply lines are open and check the 2-way valve's direction. Create a chart to regulate hot water usage. This error informs you there is something wrong while you reset the unit. The only problem you have is there is no check valves in place check valves or like stop signs that direct traffic check valves, direct to flow of water. To select a recirculation mode, you must set the DIP switches on the front panel, and set the position of the 2-way valve inside the water heater. Allow the vinegar to circulate through the heater for a minimum of one hour (longer if the pump runs at less than four gallons per minute). I am contemplating getting the NPE-180A and controlling the pump with a remote control in each bathroom. Just one Navien water heater manual for all NPE-A and NPE-S units. Lets outline them here: To determine if installing a hot water recirculation pump makes sense for your situation, we have to check the pros and cons. Locate the power button and press it to turn on the heater. Manage Settings In fact, with a tankless water heater, you face double trouble (thats why youre not getting hot water fast): Because we need to wait longer for hot water in the case of tankless water heaters vs. traditional water heaters, it makes sense to minimize that time in tankless heaters even more. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Another suggestion I can give you is to maintain and service your Navien water heater according to the manual. Close the isolation valves to the cold-supply and recirculation lines. 2. That install is exactly as specified in the newer manuals. The default setting is usually around 120 degrees Fahrenheit. Get in touch with Navien technical support or a professional heater repairman to fix the issue. The operations manuals above cover all Navien NPE-A and NPE-S series condensing tankless water heaters. He said he tied in both in the master bath and the kitchen but it seems if that were the case at a minimum they would have hot water quickly. What kind of range do you get from the remotes? We will presume that youre buying a hot water circulation pump for a household of 4 and that each person wastes about 2 gallons of water per day (mean value of Oak Ridge National Laboratorys study). Just like everything with these three characteristics, it is time-consuming and challenging. It will make your water recirculating pump much smarter. last week. We hope we were able to help you out with our guide. I've bled the system top and bottom and even removed the return line then switched to internal pump yet it still makes this noise. The 3/4-inch pipe thread connectors are used to connect the pump to your existing pipes. Going off the grid sounds noble, satisfying and eco-friendly. You will not get hot water instantly. Foreign materials like small pebbles may get into the recirculation pump. Remove the inlet filter and wash it under the running water with the help of a brush. Perhaps not everyone is familiar with the newer manual. As a result, the stuff will rub against the wall of the pump and produce a hum like a refrigerator when you turn the unit on. I used a razor and carefully pried each side of the RM11 open to reach the programming switch. Unscrew the plug cover with a suitable screwdriver to remove it. Watt recirculating pump installed on the water heater (pump plugged into standard 110/120V outlet, 3/4-inch pipe thread connectors, valve). To change the water temperature; Check this too: Richmond Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide. and our Turns out that it was the temperature of the return water was high enough to stop the recirculation. When I hooked hoses to the service pipes, the system still produced a strong, steady flow of water, seeming to not drain. If you've got a tankless water heater installed that doesn't come with a built-in recirculation pump, then in such a scenario, a separate recirculation pump can do the trick for you. Sold by HVAC Pros and ships from Amazon Fulfillment. If that fails, then the pump impeller might have disintegrated or the system water pressure may be below 0 at the pump suction causing the pump to cavitate. Continue reading below Our Video of the Day 1. If the problem persists, call a technician to fix the unit. Hello Lucy, in most cases, you have that option. I've bled the system top and bottom and even removed the return line then switched to internal pump yet it still makes this noise. The leading causes of the intermittent flame; You can fix these issues by maintaining and cleaning the heater. To understand this problem what I am talking about, you can watch this video: First off, I recommend you check the primary loop. Navien 240A2 tankless help : r/Plumbing - reddit On top of that, the recirculating pumps also return the cold water in the pipes back to the heater. It does save you water but it also costs you a bit of electricity. How Much Does 500 Watts Cost Per Hour? He obtained his Bachelor of Science degree from the University Of Texas at El Paso. I obviously dont know much about this but the plumber is giving reasons that feel like he is making up dont make sense to me: 1. It is a visible sign that your devices cold water inlet two thermistor is having some issues. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? So, hire a professional to deal with the issue. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. Is this correct for the function of the system? Thats all for today. The bigger the house, the longer these water pipes usually are, and the longest it takes to get hot water. I think it's 100F. You dont have to install an additional pipe. Start by turning off the service valves and removing the hoses. Understanding Navien Recirculating Water Heater - Heating Help: The Wall Can you turn it off in a tankless that has it built in? In fact, however, the whole machinery of the hot water recirculating pump has to be activated for this to happen. You certainly dont want that, do you? Contents show You can adjust the temperature while the display is flashing. - If there is not the fore mentioned set up he probably did the best he could do without re plumbing your house with double hot (returns to your Navien! These on-demand units need an even longer time for the hot water to reach a faucet because the heater has to first heat the water and then send it along to the faucet. This is where the timer and temperature sensor come in. Can I Turn Off My Hot Water Recirculating Pump? [Answered] A family of 4 with normal water usage can expect to save $50-$75 a year. Navien 30010780B Circulation Pump - amazon.com Should I keep my 5-year-old electric tank heater as a storage unit if I am about to install a new gas tankless heater? Check this too: Electric RV Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide. In existing homes, adding an additional pipe for a full recirculating pump system is often too expensive; its just dont worth it, according to HVAC specialists. Disconnect the power supply to the water heater. rev2023.3.3.43278. This may temporarily help to remedy the issue. A hot water recirculation pump can be sized for a given system using the following formulas: Water flow qc = /T x 4200 Additionally, you can install a 5-micron filter in the water inlet right before the heater to remove impurities from the water. If water comes out from the pressure relief pipe, this indicates that the issue is not with the unit but with the house's plumbing. Find products from Grundfos related to this subject. My pipes arent big enough 2. Turns out, make sure you isolate the recirculation pump from the vibration. but you stopped short for me. . Low gas supply which prevents proper heating of water, Damaged flow sensor preventing proper supply of gas to the heater. Types of water circulation pumps, including tankless water heater recirculation pumps. Why Does My Stiebel Eltron Tempra High-limit Switch Keep Tripping. Find applications from Grundfos related to this subject. Because the recirculation pump ran with no water, the motor ended up burning out. Therefore, the total peak demand of hot water needed is the ideal size of the heater you should get. Go along the steps described below to set the recirculation settings. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Once the display stops flashing, the temperature setting is stored. Normally uncontrolled pumps are used as the flow variation is relatively small. Now, when installed, the recirculating pump makes it seem that the hot water starts flowing right away like magic. From the valve, try to loosen up the cap to remove air from the system. But it will be best if you contact a certified plumber to fix this issue. Those are quite significant savings. If this does not work, hire a professional to repair or replace any damaged parts. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. The function of a recirculating pump is to ensure that hot water is always available as close to the consumption point as possible, in order to reduce water waste and to increase comfort. This breaks down the scale and flushes out the sediment. Recirculation Settings by pressing down the OK button. Then, read the manual on Navien tankless water heater how to reset. What is more, you can, by these estimates, reduce the future water bill considerably and actually profit nicely just by not needlessly waiting for water when youre waiting for the hot water to kick in. For moving the pump to another sink, you would have to talk with a plumber. Unfortunately, the heat exchanger cannot be fixed and has to be replaced. qc = the circulating water flow [m3/s] Change the thermistor if needed. The filter is located at the top left of the water heater. Turns out, make sure you isolate the recirculation pump from the vibration. Page 12 Turn off and discontinue use of the water heater if any of the vent . If enabled you would find that your hot water is ready to go almost anytime you need it, without a long wait. Can I swap out the mainboard in the NR240A to an NPE240A board to get all that features? This on-demand water heater has a lower carbon footprint, is energy efficient, and has a longer lifespan. I recommend you disassemble the recirculation pump from the unit and inspect it carefully for foreign materials. We might be able to do something about it. After draining a few hot water tanks over the years, removing sediment, will the cold water now possibly have some sediment and/or taste issues. Correcting Navien Tankless Hot Water Heater Installation Make sure the electrical cord is grounded. Some brands/models dont include it. Not Mounted The Pump Securely or Isolate It, Navien Tankless Water Cycles On And Off [5 Easy Solutions]. Troubleshooting Navien NPE-240A Internal Recirculation Pump - YouTube 0:00 / 4:21 Troubleshooting Navien NPE-240A Internal Recirculation Pump RCGooner2002 240 subscribers Subscribe. With two pipes, you can create a loop between the water heater and faucets. Way too many variables to even begin to diagnose online IMO. Therefore, I can't drain the system. This propels the water to your faucet or shower much quicker. Reconnect the power supply to the water heater. Fortunately, Navien water heaters recycle hot water and always provide hot water. Cookie Notice Hi: (With Water Savings Analysis), Note On Tankless Water Heater Hot Water Recirculation Pumps (Double Trouble), How Much Electricity Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? Typically recirc lines connect at the furthest fixture and allows hot water to flow through the main trunk lines.