The command given by our Lord and Savior Is not a Pharisee speaking alone It came rather through your apostles Matthew Peter and John, If a Pharisee boasts proudly Those men added nothing to my message He doesnt speak for Jesus His words are nothing more than garbage, Bibliography All quotes in quotation marks are from the writings of the Apostles Matthew John and Peter in the Bible, mostly the Red Letter words of Jesus. I am one of those who obey Gods commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus. [Revelation 12:17] No Im not perfect without sin, and No I dont know everything now. Anyway, Ill talk with Clinton and see if he has an idea for a short catchy slogan- maybe boiled down to four words or so. Jesus was asked twice, by two different men, the same basic question about which is the most important or greatest commandment in the Law. Somehow Barnabas who was at the Pentecost knew Saul! Here however it plainly is not. Gamaliel became a leading authority in the Sanhedrin, the highest Jewish court in Jerusalem. . What does tents mean in the Bible? Those educational credentials allowed Paul to preach in the synagogues wherever he traveled (see Acts 17:2 ). God told them to go one way, and they disobeyed God and did the opposite- but God still worked through them eventually, after they repented. Clinton. Was Judas present when Jesus spoke those words? . Gamaliel was the grandson of Hillel, the most renowned rabbi in Jewish history. If the Hillel tradition did not offer plasticity enough to justify Pauls missions against Christians, is it possible that Paul felt that he stayed basically faithful to Gamaliel/Hillels school and to mercy because the predominant number (majority of cases) of Pauls concrete cases against Christians did not require threats of death (i.e., how many Christians caved in?). The quicker we do it, the more profitable it is for us. If Christianity is the church as it is practiced in 2018 then you are correct, that is not present in the book of Acts. Perhaps Gamiliels views influenced Pauls personal comments on marriage in 1 Corinthians 7 (Polhill, Paul and his Letters, 30). He ignored your instructions that I passed on to him. R. N. A Nazarite vow entail a MANTADORY sacrifice to the temple. The first thing was that they might be with Him personally, together, for His entire earthly ministry, from the time of John the Baptist until Jesus rose to heaven. Not the Jesus of the Koran, written by Muhammad the self-appointed prophet, and not the Jesus of Paul the Pharisee, the self-appointed apostle. | Reading Acts, Can You Be a Pastor without going to Seminary? Pohill points out that Gamaliel seemed to be very resigned about this new Jesus movement, saying that if Christianity was not of Gods will, they would end in disaster just like the false messianic movements in Israels past did (pg 31). Sign up. Religious Jews, who were living under the Law, were asking Jesus (at that time a teacher of the Law) concerning The Law. and I get upset as we read the bible and let someone with their interpretation do interpret for us ,no one can haggle the word of God. Historically, it's believed to be 34 AD, give or take a year. Polhill does say So perhaps around the age of fourteen to sixteen Pawl went to Jerusalem to study under Gamaliel (Polhill 30). So even if he did go off at the age of 15 then that is still 15 years of being influenced by his father. Being a Pharisee did not disqualify you from believing in Yeshua. Infact, the sect that condemned Yeshua were Sadducee. The Olympic games were created to honor the gods and Emperors were considered gods. I find it interesting to look at this perspective that you pointed out, PLong: He was an ultra-conservative reacting to what he perceived as a dangerous liberal view. Everyone seems to give Saul a bad rap (and rightly so) for his actions towards believers before his conversion, however, this at least gives us a context to understand him better. God has not changed, and neither has the text of The Bible. Never mind what Paul said. Paul is inferior, Jesus is superior. He calls himself "of the people of Israel.". Polhil states that perhaps around the age of fourteen to sixteen Paul went to Jerusalem to study under Gamaliel (Acts 22:3), (30). This comes from inconsciously believing Pauls mantra, the Evangelical Mantra, that All Scripure is God-breathed, and falsely assuming Paul was referring to every word in the 66 Books of the Bible. It is comparing the words of Jesus with the words of Paul (and other men) regarding which one is the Most Important Commandment and which one is the Second commandment, which together fulfill the Law and the Prophets. He was most highly trained as a Pharisee, so maybe and OT PhD at the best university today? Both Yeshua and Pauls ministries are simply another sect of Judaism. Well Maybe that spirit isnt the Holy Spirit of Jesus, maybe you are bound in spirit by the evil spirit of Paul the Pharisee. I didnt think King Herod would knock you off so quickly. Yes I believe that Paul was influenced by his teacher Gamaliel and his experience of being a Pharisee, but I do not think these were the only factors shaping how and what Paul taught and wrote. Who was Paul taught under? And one for Muhammad too. But Jesus said, do not take the best seats (Luke 14:7-11), and to be like a child (Luke 18:15-17). First, Gamaliel was one of the premier teachers of the Law in the first century. And no one, not even Paul, ever said that all Scripture was equal. If yes, then are Pauls subjective states really discernible as correlates to these two different schools based only on Pauls texts? Who was Paul's mentor in his study of Judaism? Darris McNeely - Dec 7, 2022 | In this class we will discuss Acts 5:26-41 thru Acts 6:1-7 and notice the following events: the apostles being persecuted by the Sanhedrin for teaching in Christ's name; how a Pharisee named Gamaliel spoke up on behalf of the apostles; and the choosing of seven men to help the disciples distribute food. when did congress pass the noahide laws; what is monzo building society account? The answer to that question is, they have been listening to the voice of Paul, rather than the voices of Jesus and the Original Apostles. Just open the Gospels, especially Mathew, which has you in mind, and listen to the voice of Yeshua. The irony is what youre doing is exactly what Paul said NOT to do. What ends up as what we call Christianity and Judaism today both some out of the turmoil of the first two centuries. I do not think, however, that Paul was a Christian Pharisee. Even Festus said that Paul was very learned, Acts 26:24. How long will you waver between two opinions? This contradicts the clear specific teaching of Jesus about the first and greatest commandment and the second. (I dare you to use this in your class), I know a girl made of memories and phrases, lives her whole life in chapters and phases -Jimmy Buffett. But he certainly does not handle the NT very well from what I have read. Then those who finished the garage can go help the others finish the house., One worker objected: But Boss Paul, those were not the owners instructions! Educated under Gamaliel, who is still to this day regarded as one of the most influential rabbis in judaism. Have you even stepped inside shul? 3). And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. Instead, it puts their focus on their one special man above all others his personality, words and teachings, character, life example, feelings, experience, intentions, mind, will, emotions, etc. Paul, (Timothy1:1) Jesus said, "Ye must be born again" to? According to the Hebrew Bible, the tabernacle (Hebrew: , mishkn, meaning "residence" or "dwelling place"), also known as the Tent of the Congregation ( 'hel m', also Tent of Meeting, etc. Quick question (not one of my posts), was Paul around/among those that put Jesus to death?? When did Paul study under Gamaliel? Youre the one playing fast and loose because youve made nonsense article doctrine even though Paul verbatim tell you where he comes from, his theology. Gravity. The revelation of the Gospel directly from Jesus Christ (Gal 1:12), most probably in Arabia. We need to get to work applying that paint to the garage and house as quick as we can. While Gamaliel was seemingly somewhat relaxed in his view of the Torah, Paul seemed to take it so seriously, that he believed the Christians truly did deserve to be persecuted for believing in a false Messiah. I find this convincing since Paul seems, at least in part, to return to Gamaliels tutelage after his conversion. Why not listen to Jesus, and His words written down and passed on by HIS faithful eyewitnesses, the Apostles HE personally appointed, and personally trained for over 3 years, Matthew and John? Indirectly, Gamaliel had a profound effect on the early church. Gamaliel is reflecting the Hillel tradition of non-violence and allowing God to deal with parties that against the Jews (Polhill, Paul and His Letters, 31). N. T. Wright describes the Shammaite Pharisee as a militant hard-liner that was not willing to work with Rome as long as they could study the Torah, as Hillel had said (What Saint Paul Really Said, 26). This became an issue in front of the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15). You are one of a growing number of followers of the Messiah (p) Issa/Yesha who actually have figured out Paul was a con artist sent to corrupt the movement started by the Nazarene Messiah (p) and if it failed in Pauls lifetime it succeeded under the Roman Emporer Constantine and it was Paul they revered as THE Apostle, even before Nicene Creed was made up. Considering the writing of the Mishnah and Talumd are collection of previous works from various Yeshivas (ie before the New Testament) clearly shows you have no idea what youre talking about in regards to Judaism and how the text was culminated. His voice is so much greater Than paul the Pharisee. It isnt a question of mens opinions about what Paul really meant or what Paul must have known or what Paul was actually referring to here or what Paul was clearly implying or what we must conclude that Paul was assuming, etc. But i am just speculating here. Belivers in Yeshua adhered to Lev, 23 and worshipped on the true shabbat. Plenty of time for him to get familiar with popular Greek culture in order to draw appropriate analogies. It sounds so right, so intelligent, so professional, so godly.. but it is fundamentally flawed. Was he working around/with the High Priests, or would he still have been studying under Gamaliel? To Paul, Christianity was dangerous, and to his Jewish thinking, very wrong. In Acts 5:34 he appears as an advocate of the nascent congregation of Jesus' disciples in Jerusalem and is called "a Pharisee, a teacher of the Law, held in honor by all the people.". These would be lofty words for a law abiding Pharisee to be speaking and Paul obviously saw Christ as the laws fulfillment. Study with Quizlet and memorize flashcards containing terms like Definition of 'epistle', 5 Common Denominators of an Epistle, T/F - Christ is a relationship not a religion and more. Paul, however, I think was so strongly devoted to the strict teachings of the Torah, that he had to fundamentally had to disagree with his teacher. Although there are many remarkably similarities between Paul and HIllel, there are serious differences between what might be considered the mainstream of Judaism which survived A.D. 70 (Hillel for the most part) and Pauline Christianity. While his academic eloquence and Oxbridge accent package his presuupositional as carrying high credibility, it too frequently in substance simply does not. Friend, I want to hire you and your team to paint my house and my garage. The Apostle Peter made reference to Prophecy of Scripture, not All Scripture, and no its not the same thing at all. And I need to save a throne for my mom, or shell be mad. I see zero Biblical basis for the idea that Paul trained Apollos, or that Paul granted specific authority to any other individual in Corinth other than himself. Yes, Christians are the new Pharisees and because of Paul will never figure it out. GamalielHe Taught Saul of Tarsus Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY GamalielHe Taught Saul of Tarsus THE crowd stood in hushed silence. Paul would say his success came from the power of the Gospel and the Holy Spirit. QUOTE The Bible is none other than the voice of Him that sitteth upon the throne! [erase erase erase], Of course, you both are specifically mentioned in Acts 6:2. So we know that he is a Pharisee, is part of the Sanhedrin, and taught the man who would eventually pen the majority of the New Testament. what is your source for that requirement? Critics also say that Pauls exegesis takes from later documents. Did paul study under gamaliel? That is the basic idea of the heavy-duty seminary language we were being trained in. In fact, it almost sounds as if he is name-dropping in order to impress people!. He had nowhere to sleep, and had to go stay in a hotel for several days. Pauls athletic references good point Emily. The sect were known as Nazarites or Netzrim and in later writings Messianics. When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles: Simon.. [Luke 6:12-14], Again three chapters later, When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick. [Luke 9:1-2], .3) Gospel of Matthew which is organized by theme, not necessarily in chronological order. Paul, Silas, and Timothy desired to enter Asia to spread the gospel there, but the Holy Spirit prevented them. Look forward, not back, dont dwell on your past. Who did Apostle Paul study under? It is the drastic nature of the difference in his life after he surrenders to Jesus that testifies to the Power and Truth of who Christ is, as well as to the wonder of the great mystery that is later revealed to Paul! As is his conventional style, NT Wright is overly presuppositionsal in so much of his theology generally that I cannot personally ascribe to him much status as a scholarly commentator . Yet Mohammed (saw) reiterated the message as Gods Messenger and like the Pharisees rejected him because their forefathers corrupted the original message. In my reading, it would seem that many doubt the claim that one as zealous as Paul could not have sat at the feet of Gamaliel. Dont ask us! Since the garage is smaller, we can finish that quicker. I will call him a liar . Needless to say, many still revere Philomena and Christopher as saints. What was Paul's purpose in the Bible? No, im based in Missouri. Who needs truth in relationship, when I can quickly get market share, and totally dominate the market, through mergers and acquisitions? The moment Paul stopped persecuting the disciples of Jesus Christ, he stopped fighting against God. I am trying to understand this whole post, but think the discussion is mainly about Paul and why he acted the way he did in persecuting christians after studying under Gamaliel who was more concerned with non violent acts. Peter was from the school of Shammi and Shaul was clearly from Hillel and we see this when these two Pharisee argue with each other on various topics. Something Paul preaches repeatedly. While it is true that Paul did persecute early Christians, it was for his love of the Torah and not because he was rebelling against Roman oppression. People trained by Paul to carry on the work after he left. Here is how Jesus answered that question: #1 One of the teachers of the law asked him [Jesus], Of all the commandments, which is the most important?, The most important one, answered Jesus, is this: Hear, of Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. He was an ultra-conservative reacting to what he perceived as a dangerous liberal view (Jesus was the Messiah and the High Priest killed him!). 1:1, / 1 Cor. The Zealots were against the Political oppressors, the Sadducees were complacent and the Pharasees were die hard conservatives that had a history of killing over the strict preservation of the law (Polhill 27-28). The message of The 11 (The narrow gate), The eleven disciples went to Galilee Where Jesus had told them to go They heard His voice and obeyed His will Despite uncertainty down below, Jesus spoke to them at length He wasnt really a Tweeter Only 3 of them wrote Scripture Matthew John and Peter, Feed my sheep said Jesus, for though Heaven and earth will pass away I have the words of eternal life and My words will never pass away, Enter through the narrow gate The voice of Jesus through the eleven Believe in Jesus through their message And eat from the tree of life in heaven. And 1 as 1. xl. Paul says that he was taught by Gamaliel. . Within Acts 22 he mentions how he zealously persecuted the followers of the Way, something that up until that point, had not been done by anyone within Judaism to that extent. What were Pauls specific sins as a Christian? Either way, by Acts logic every Christian should reject false doctrines but if a new teacher appears and preaches about God the One God, and is called a Prophet, if his mission is as wildly successful, sans the forced conversions Christianity depended on, IS FORBIDDEN at that, obviously Christians are the new Pharisees for rejecting and slandering Prophet Mohammed (saw) and adhering to oral traditions of their forefathers. Jesus commissioned the eleven With everything I have commanded you Teaching THEM to obey Jesus And THEM means me and you ! Here, Paul explicitly wrote that he was in these regions. Furthermore, youre also essentially calling Paul a liar. So approximately 1-2 years after the crucifixion and Resurrection. For example, when Jesus was speaking about a new command I give you, Jesus didnt say THE new commandment, or the FIRST commandment, or the MOST IMPORTANT commandment, or the ONE commandment, or the GREATEST commandment, or ONE RULE. But what do I do with this truth? therefore I urge you to imitate me, and I have become all things to all men. Paul thinks hes Boss, and doesnt need to listen to your instructions that I gave him.. This is more accurate, important, and authoritative than personal letters written by Paul the Pharisee, who never knew Jesus personally, had no part in His ministry, and had no eyewitness testimony. Tarsus of Cilicia. Scripture does not state whether Saul was or was not in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus crucifixion. Or see the series of posts on Core Beliefs of Second Temple Judaism starting here: https://readingacts.com/2017/03/30/core-beliefs-of-second-temple-judaism-shema/. Paul did a much better job of marketing himself, and he wrote about himself hundreds of times. . a. Lets not waste our time with endless debates about what Paul really meant with his wacky teachings about baptizing the dead or there is neither male nor female. Paul was wrong. Undoubtedly, most of the Jews knew who Gamaliel was, and thus they allowed Paul to speak. His dissertation was published as Jesus the Bridegroom by Pickwick Books in 2012. Yet Jesus is the object of worship, turned into a false god believed to be confirmed in a book that actually refutes it! That is an issue and is creating confusion regarding the Brit Chadashah (Renewed Testament). He came so we can turn from darkness And into His glorious light. Evidence for this more accommodating opinion is found in the book of Acts. This is not true, you have no idea what you are talking about. Its not prejudice, youre blatantly misquoting Paul, Shammi and Hillel. I believe that his reaction was not majorly a reflection of his upbringing and teaching, but rather of a fear that the tradition and comfort of the Jewish ways was being challenged by a dangerous liberal view (P. Long), and he thought it his duty to protect his lifestyle and beliefs as a Hebrew of Hebrews, a Pharisee, and of the Tribe of Benjamin (Phi 3:5-5). But that isnt the only meaning, or even the first and primary meaning. Or does he break away from Gamaliel and the Pharisees in other ways? This does not seem so radically opposed to Rome. Paul claims to have been educated by Gamaliel, one of the premier teachers of the Law in the first century. If Christianity means people who follow Jesus as messiah and savior then there is Christianity, beginning with Jewish followers of Jesus and moving out to the Gentiles through the Pauline mission. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about A.D. 6 at the earliest. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about A.D. 6 at the earliest. Sages of the time didn't have formal recognition or title. Christian Pharisees were not unknown, even if we cannot know for sure if the wishful thinking of the traditions is true about Gamaliel and Nicodemus. Neither do I condemn you said Jesus, to a woman entrapped by dogs. I think Sam is right (somewhere up the thread), one can differ from his teacher, sometimes radically. No mention of a cloudy past No hint of condemnation. Pharisee Saul, inventor of Christianity, the new Pharisees. Removing that aspect will cause misunderstanding of what they were teaching. Do you have a reference handy mentioning Gamaliel in the Clementine lit? We cant read without any number of lenses (Suppositions) coloring our reading. Note I was raised and somewhat educated Irish Roman Catholic, so no axe to grind here! Or is it possible that Paul privately harbored more overall agreement with Gamaliel/Hillel than with Shammaite Pharisees, and that Paul felt himself to be a lone dissenter in rare cases (Christians) against his former masters legal hermeneutics of mercy? This article is the result of when you remove the culture/context of the scriptures, the Hebraics of the Brist Chadasha (Renewed Testament) and injecting the christian outlook that Shaul (Paul) divorced his Jewish roots. And the head Mormon Apostle. Here are answers to 2 common objections: .a) What about the so-called Golden Rule? For these reasons, it seems highly unlikely that Paul isolated himself for the purpose of study during these "Lost Years.". Note: ingrafted Gentiles were branches of the tree and not replacements of Israel of the entire tree (replacement theology). The reason why Paul is talking about athletics is due to Imperial Court. And we can but make some comparisons in ourselves. Paul was actually heeding the words of his teacher Gamaliel, who had said to guard against being "found fighters actually against God" by rejecting his pharisaical life and becoming a disciple of Jesus Christ. It makes sense to affirm that the God Who made us gave us a revelation of himself that we can understand. When did Paul study under Gamaliel? There is so much theological supposing these days! From your article clearly shows you dont even understand the basic concepts of Judaism nor what those schools taught. .1) Gospel of Mark time lag between being appointed and being sent Jesus went up on a mountainside and called to him those he wanted, and they came to him. My question is who is the artist who did the painting pictured here, possibly of Gamaliel? There were several rebellions in Jerusalem regarding the building of gymnasiums. Created by. Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space; Numbers 7:59 chapter context similar meaning "And for a sacrifice of peace offerings, two oxen, five rams, five he goats, five lambs of the first year: this was the offering of Gamaliel the son of Pedahzur." By claiming to have been under the teaching of this particular rabbi, Paul is claiming to have been educated in a most impressive way. The Astounding Conversion of Paul I trust that no one is offended and that as a result of this comment, we might get closer to Him, The Truth. blasphemy! To be more like Jesus is what some strive except for me Ive already arrived Im the perfect model since the road to Damascus What were Pauls sins? Maase Hatorah -works of the law 2. I do not think that after conversion he started reading manuals of style in order to communicate better with Gentiles, he already was well aware of these styles because the were pervasive in the culture. We proclaim with a big smile And Jesus is my co-pilot So Im always top of the pile, God our Father loves his children He is patient as we grow So we take another step Its The Rocky and Bullwinkle Show, As we journey with The Moose Faithfully by our side We get a revelation We have to swallow our pride, He must become greater He really is The Star I must become less, but still with Him Ill travel far, You must follow me, says Jesus In His eyes I see a twinkle He is not My friend I am HIS Jesus is The Star like Bullwinkle. I wont say Im high on Jesus, and so using a mind-altering drug for recreational purposes is wrong, because Jesus is better. I dont want to be rejected by my peers. The New Testament was not written nor codified till well after both Yeshua and Shaul were gone. I will say, The Jewish account maintains that he remained a Pharisee until his death makes perfect sense since we know that there were other Pharisees who were Christians in Acts 15, and Paul still claims to be a Pharisee when he testifies before the Sanhedrin in Acts 23:6. The Lord Our God is ONE God worship HIM.. A generation before Christ there were two great rabbis, Hillel and Shammai. Listen to him! [Mark 9:7], The Apostle John recorded the testimony of John the Baptist: I have see and I testify that this is the Son of God. [John 1:34], In contrast, Hundreds of years later Muhammad came along and wrote: God has no son.. His seeds are seeds of oppression and bondage. The Middle East is very unstable. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some (1 Corinthians 9:22 ESV).. There are three things bearing on this subject among the incidental intimations which we have in respect to the early history of Saul, viz. Granted Shammaite pharisees love their Torah to that extent as well, but it is not a distinctly Shammaite practice. Forgive me, but it easier to cite the following from the Wikipedia.