June 2, 2010 in Shotgun - Technical. Do you know the constriction of the remington bore? If it seems like I cant recommend hunting deer with buckshot, just keep reading. Its amazing how tight a pattern this load shoots into the zombie targets chest at 50 yards. He has earned black belts in four martial arts and is a certified Krav Maga instructor. Figure 15 illustrates the velocity versus penetration depths obtained for #1 buckshot single-launched buckshot and #1 buckshot shotshells. Only a soft recovery (shooting gelatin, water or cotton) will tell you which type of buckshot your shotshell produces. Though it has less constriction than modified choke it delivers 50 percent of the pellets in a 30 inch at 40 yards. With a 20-gauge, generally, No.2 buckshot is what you find. The pattern is youre accountable for every single round in that pattern onto a man-sized target, easily. Jordan enjoys giving his time and resources to help others and has spent 15 years volunteering in a boy's mentoring program He is and will always be an American Patriot. I tried a Carlson's Full, and it was very poor performing with 00 buck. You can always shoot a larger shell if your gun holds them, they are just more expensive and have a serious amount of recoil. Tighter chokes will allow for greater hit probability at distance but will likely increase drag by deforming the pellets - reducing penetration of target. All of these shotguns are excellent in my opinion, and Ive pointed both brands at more than a few criminals in my law enforcement career. Most buckshot gives up its energy well within 100 yards or less. We were running out of butcher paper and decided to test the smallest patterning load first, the Hornady 00 Buckshot. 10" @ 10 yards, 25" @ 25 yards, 50" @ 50 yards. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. So, the head, the neck, or the lungs, which one is best? Combat is characterized by rapidly unfolding events taking place unexpectedly and often during periods of low visibility. Anything bigger puts a serious wallop on your shoulder and the shorter ones seem to work fine. The spine and neck are great targets. But lets look into it further yet. Back before the days of screw in chokes we deer hunted brair patches and cedar thickets with with hounds and shotguns. Comparing the results between the Mossberg 500 and 590A1 is pretty interesting, as 4 inches less barrel did not make that much of a difference in the spread pattern. Federal Premium LE132 00 low recoil buckshot, 9-pellet 3. All three shotguns created patterns measuring 1.5 inches or less at 12 feet. Most stock barrels were less than .5 per yard. And by best here, I am talking about 40 yard patterns for deer, not across-the-bedroom patterns for home defense. Using harder lead, or even nickel or copper-plated buckshot, reduces deformation, keeping the buckshot more true in flight. With No.1 or No.2 Buckshot, it's more like 35-40 yards max for a potent load that groups tight. I thought what was really sort of fun was when does the shotgun become, okay, I can hit stuff reliably. If I remember correctly. I don't like the risk of getting a gut shot or poorly wounded deer just because they were at 50 yards. JOHN: But not passing the FBI standards. +1 on the extended choke. The Boar Blaster seemed to corral enough of the pellets and put them into the vitals to be a worthwhile buckshot choke option. Shooting again at 25 yards, the 18-inch-barreled 500 created a 6.5-inch pattern while the 14-inch-barreled 590A1 produced a 14-inch pattern. Maybe my barrel likes it more than yours. It has also been proposed that, at distances beyond 25 yards, the pellets would not have sufficient energy to stop a suspect or, for instance, penetrate their leather coat. 3) 3" Federal Vital Shok #4 buckshot - 41 pellets sight: Truglow red dot sight mounted on the vent rib of the barrel. Powdercoat does help in groupings. Having a hit probability greater than chance (greater than 50% of pellets make scoreable hits on target). Hornady has an 8-pellet load that pops out at a smoking 1,600 fps, and groups nearly half that of other common lads. If you go to a 12 gauge, you can increase the effective range somewhat. Chris Baker Shotguns are typically considered close-range firearms, especially when loaded with buckshot. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,600],'guntradition_com-large-mobile-banner-1','ezslot_3',115,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-guntradition_com-large-mobile-banner-1-0');You really want most of your pattern to be on the deer. Which of the two theories is proper? 12 gauge 00 buck IS READILY AVAILABLE with 12 pellets. This particular shotgun has been customized by 870 maestro Hans Vang of Vang Comp Systems. I help equip people with knowledge and skills so they can be safe and effective with firearms. This criteria is only for larger buckshot of 1, 0, 00, or 000, though. JOHN: So for me, I guess the big takeaway was that inside of 25, the shotgun is devastating. The pellets are clustered together more than conventional wad buckshot when they reach the choke, and they are compressed against each other leading to increased deformation. [Federals advertised velocity is 1100 for the #1 versus 1145 for the #00. Neither pattern was exceptionally tight. The pattern generally opens up pretty quickly. Out to 50, you are still lethal, youre still getting the majority of the pellets onto someone, if thats what youre shooting at, but youre starting to lose ones off of the target which, depending on what youve got going on, is a problem. RE: Buckshot for deer. Any choke will easily launch #4 buck out to 50 yards. Generally, this is 30-yard buckshot. Buckshot patterns fall apart quickly. This one was at 7 yards and the spread was about 9 inches. The record shows Remington Ammunition has recently discovered an issue related to its 12-Gauge Premier Accutip ammo and issued a recall notice. Ive got a Beretta 1301 that actually patterns with #1 at 25 about like what your barrel was doing, so probably about the same thing for that particular gun, but Ive got other shotguns that dont pattern like that. We used two different loads: Federal FliteControl #1 and Federal FliteControl #00 8-pellet. The main issue with using buckshot is to know your limitations. Stuff You Should Know About Buckshot [Part 1], More Stuff You Should Know About Buckshot [Part 2], The Backyard Sniper Lightweight Edition, Why Wont the Ruger Mini-14 Just Die? This sphere must penetrate a minimum of 2.95 inches (75mm) but no more than 3.74 inches (95mm)". If you fire at the head, half of the pattern will also be covering the spine and neck. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". I will take her target shooting, but I am curious if anyone can tell me what to expect. Buckshot is not manufactured by a company that consistently shoots a pattern as tight as Hornady's. Premium, buffered loads of hard pellets are worth the price you pay for them for shooting at longer ranges (40 yards). BrianEnos.com That is not hard to do since I have patterned my factory choke at 60 yards with 000b 3.5 with 75% in a 3ft circle. Published Oct 10, 2019 5:15 PM. I think it'd be easier to evaluate the groupings if you only fire one round at each target, but use 2 or 3 different targets (your hold could have been slightly off with one of your rounds and that may have accounted for the 4 pellets off the target). Dont be tempted to buy the big 3 inch shells with more shot. The rounds were shot from a Mossberg 500 12-gauge shotgun with a 20-inch barrel length and full choke. With flush chokes, the taper is more pronounced creating less accuracy. For ranges far shorter than 50 yards, the shotgun is an ideal man stopper, an effective self defense tool. Mind you, the targets were narrow as you can see ( about 10.5"), and I don't think the fliers went far off at all. Because they are spheres, they have a horrible sectional density. A small increase in effective range will occur in hot climates and a moderate decrease in range will occur in extreme cold climates. In fact, at 25 yards, the 14-inch-barreled 590A1 produced a pattern 1-inch smaller than the 500. However, nothing has outperformed Remington 000 2.75" from an IC flush-mount thus-far. It seems that in the oldest question of weight vs. number, 00 buckshot has been the drawn line in the sand. This shotgun includes a SureFire forearm, a BlackHawk Knoxx Stock and a three-point sling. Its not very big. The Winchester and the Federal preformed the best. In my Remington's, I shoot a Carlson's turkey choke, and 100% of the pattern is in a 20" circle at 40 yards, with 00 and 000 all going in a 15" circle. The Trulocks claim a 20% tighter pattern with the Boar Blaster, which is about what I saw. Generally 00 buck will open up about 1 per yard traveled with a cylinder bore 12 gauge. The idea you need to have a short barrel is foolish, you gain a slight amount of maneuverability for a great sacrifice in accuracy and effectiveness. I should mention that the stock of the Mossberg 500 prevented me from getting down on the bead sights as much as I wouldve liked, so I tended to shoot a little high using the same center-mass target. For most, 00 is effective enough, and the individual increase in performance is not worth the loss of a whole pellet. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Since shotguns are deployed in non- spontaneous shootings where law enforcement or military members have the time to access and deploy them, distances in scattergun shootings are going to tend to be longer. Buckshot pellets are significantly larger than birdshot. The 00 buckshot he used was not standard velocity, but actually reduced velocity. The standard sizes of buckshot are #0, #00, #000, #1 and #4 buckshot. This variant is very popular and an outstanding home defense and tactical load. Hornady Zombie @ 21ft. So how are buckshot patterns affected by distance and barrel length? Would you get this with birdshot? I founded TFB in 2007 and over 10 years worked tirelessly, with the help of my team, to build it up into the largest gun blog online. CHRIS: I dont know if you guys know about the #1 FliteControl, but its a difficult load to get ahold of, so we didnt have a whole lot of it on hand. This minimum velocity was found in Phase I, the terminal ballistics portion of the testing. But, it was a dandy. It is perfect for hunting birds and clay targets. Wow! CHRIS: Right, and thats with your gun. Those nine .33-caliber pellets can have serious impact on a human target, and that effectiveness only improves from 75 feet and in. The measurements were taken using the two widest pellets of the 00 buckshot load. One need not be concerned about such while hunting deer, for example. It was necessary to determine the velocity of the buckshot spheres as they traveled downrange to know the maximum range at which the pellet would be able to meet the 12.0 minimum penetration depth in ballistic gelatin. Ready for a laugh? Your discussions, feedback and comments are welcome here as long as they are relevant and insightful. Smith & Wesson M&P 5.7 Packs 22+1 Rounds of Firepower! Except at under 30 yards, it doesnt have the power to bust through the hide and penetrate both lungs. Its at home in both the deer gun and the tactical shotgun. Its also fairly inexpensive. We need to mention we were using your [Mossberg 590 with a] Vang Comp barrel thats optimized for FliteControl. *I have found the *rougher* the choke, the tighter the pattern, all things being equal. Shot recovered from 50 yard penetration test. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=86292. By clicking Accept All, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. But it's only 50 feet! I am sure many dead deer would argue that yes buckshot is lethal at 50 yards. How effective is buckshot at extended ranges? Enter to WIN the Smith & Wesson and Black Hills package. At 10 feet distance it is routine for not all of the buckshot pellets to spread out enough to cut independent paths through the gelatin and this skews the penetration depth figure in the direction of deeper penetration. No one in their right mind should use a long barrel shotgun for in home security/protection, unless that is all they have. At 30 it shot about a three inch group. One pellet that disrupts either the brain or the spine will bring your deer down on the spot. All shots where taken at 40 yards and with 2 3/4 # 3 buckshot all 20 pellet loads The pictures as follows Winchester brand (unplated shot) Remington brand ( unplated shot) and Federal (copper plated). In many reduced-sized patrol cars, a shorter barrel only makes sense because a traditional 18- or 20-inch-barreled shotgun is simply too big to fit in the passenger compartment. We headed out to the range to find out with three representative shotguns. Distances between muzzle and target for the #4 buckshot and unplated #1 buckshot correspond to the maximum distance at which a single shot pellet is expected to be traveling fast enough to score an incapacitating hit. I have no experience with extended chokes or chokes with longer taper, but then I have not found the need yet. A shotgun shooting a slug is also much more precise than a shotgun shooting buckshot. However, you may visit "Cookie Settings" to provide a controlled consent. Ok, here are my current patterns: all based on Federal 00 buckshot and a mossberg 500 12ga. Please be respectful of others. Thank for the info in advance. Close patterns and solid hits are ideal, the spread is nice, but a good central hit with a tight group brings out the true effectiveness of the round. It would no doubt perform even better with high quality buffered loads. For the purposes of this report, the definition of buckshot is broken out into two categories: deformed and spherical. Very possible. It has the best practical range of any hollowpoint weapon for deer hunting: about 70 yards. I will go ahead and order a Cylinder choke from Briley and try it out, as much as I grit my teeth at the idea. This particular shotgun has been outfitted with a SureFire forearm with an integral weapon light as well as an ATI adjustable stock and pistol grip combo. He also runs his own Gun Blog and YouTube Channel. In a Mossberg 590A1 CYL, I have seen consistent patterns of less than 6". 1150 fps buckshot is reduced recoil, full power 00 buckshot loads of 2 3/4 12 gauge are actually around 1350, interestingly enough, his under powered tests actually reinforces the effectiveness of the cartridge. Believe me, it works. JOHN: Right. The #1 buckshot (plated, pattern-controlled) load had a higher hit probability than the unplated 00 buckshot (maintaining a hit probability of 50+% out to 57 yards) but the individual pellets lacked the mass and initial velocity to retain terminal effectiveness beyond 51 yards. I specifically chose the companys Federal Premium Maximum load with nine pellets of 00 buckshot. America's Ultimate Shooting Sports Discounter, Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window). The results chart is telling: Hit the link for the full article, pictures, and analysis, including the tutorial on back-boring. My buddy runs a Benelli M4 with the MOD choke and gets consistent 7" patterns with it. The following picture is a shot from the 1897 with 30" full choke barrel at 50 yards. [Part 2], Why Wont the Ruger Mini-14 Just Die? Shotguns are typically considered close-range firearms, especially when loaded with buckshot. This may be true for reduced-recoil buckshot, but this max-velocity load seemed to have sufficient energy to truly put a hurt on a suspect. A Remington or Winchester 00 Buckshot can travel between 35 and 50 yards. The spread was about 4 inches, not counting the wad. Finally, I tried the 3 inch Magnum load. Your family is worth it. Forget about 20 gauge with anything larger than #3 buckshot. You probably already knew that. you have more of gradual taper on the inside of the choke, also known as the "skirt", because the taper looks like a skirt. This gave the reasonable expectation that all shots taken during the dispersion testing were aimed at the center-of-mass of the FLETC Transitional Target II. By itself, its not an adequate target. -CB]. Buckshot will kill you at 100 yards. Cameron had an extra full Primos (IIRC) turkey choke that absolutely threw an awesome pattern (100%, 16-18" @ 50 yards) with Remington 000, the cheap stuff. If you need proof, Brass Fetcher tested buckshot against ballistic gelatin at 50 yards and then managed to chronograph it at 50 yards (no small feat). It does not store any personal data. The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt! I only took three shots at 60 yards, here is the data in table format. We also have to understand that shotguns may pattern differently. When hunting land animals with spreading shot, the only choke in existence for the task is full choke. Logically, less pellets equals a lower hit probability against distant targets. This test consists of firing a .177 caliber steel sphere (BB) into the gelatin block at 590 feet per second (fps) +/- 15 fps. As such, we recommend #4 buckshot for self-defense only if using plated and heavily-buffered shotshells and the anticipated range of engagement does not exceed 10 yards. For defense against people my max range with 00 buck is 15 yards and slugs 35-50 yards. One issue is that no one uses a full choke on a defensive shotgun, IC is the tightest that is practical for defensive use. I have heard some good things about a neat load from the Dixie Slug Company. Buckshot is small enough, and with a loss of velocity it loses a lot of hitting power and penetration. Penetration is key. Am also testing my buckshot patterns. In an 870 Police Magnum shotgun with a 18" IC choke barrel, it will consistently give a 14"-15" pattern at 25 yards. We have lots more on the site to show you. Ive watched it happen in super slow motion at the Federal test lab, where engineer Erik Carlson told me had witnessed the same phenomenon many times and concluded that pellets fall into line because of a drafting effect. Ill have to find out if my shotgun will accept a choke to tighten up the pattern as none of us can afford new guns. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. One of the best features of the shotgun is its versatility.