The "1136" might be the serial number for that pair of pistols. firearms books bibliary. Many thanxPS:. in the A to C range of the alphabetical order. Braekers Charles & Cie it was my grandfathers and has been in the family for a while. visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, A strong good product that will last for long usage in your I can't find any other mumbers on the gun other than the multiple proof markings that I will post later. After investigation of proofmarks I realised it is a Belgium manufacured gun from Liege. As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. Hits and Misses: Dating a Double-Barreled Hammer Gun - Blogger The Baby Browning in . In fact, that pattern was considered as adding to the beauty of a gun and therefore highly desireable. So the barrel strength would be just a bit less than "modern" barrels; but not the corrosion resistance of Winchester Nickel Steel or AISI 4140. Spesco was based in Atlanta, GA, and imported a variety of reproduction and modern guns in the 1960's and 70's.It would be a good idea to check that the rifle is unloaded. A fine antique 18th Century Double Barreled English Percussion Sporting Gun by the famous maker Henry Nock London, caliber 14 mm . There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most . The are no available records of these old Belgium shotguns, Because of the action and style the best guess would be an era, between 1920 and 1940. It was mandatory post-1924. Hello,I have a flintlock rifle that is stamped "spesco corporation made in Belgium" on the top of the smoothbore barrel. 1890, double bbl shotgun, 12 ga, 30" bbls. 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheuxs 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges.Dating pin-fire guns: the 1835 date of Lefaucheuxs invention gives us a convenient terminus a quo: if the pin-fire wasnt invented until 1835, any pin-fire gun cannot be earlier than 1835. The Belgian-made Auto-5 gets more accolades, but the Miroku A-5 is the better gun. The viewers mark was a capital V, also surmounted with a crown. Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum ('Manufacturer') Home > Product Catalog Shotguns made in Belgium category Firearms/ Small arms 731 Rifles 237 Shotguns 359 Pistols 134 Blank/Signal/Rubberball pistols 1 Black powder/Muzzleloader 2 Ammunition 3 Ammunition Components/Reloading 20 Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. Old Belgium 12 gage double barrel shotgun. The standard proving of weapons rose out of the need for protection on the part of the public against unreliable weapons, and it was also a means of protecting the armourer guild and good craftsmen against outside competition with cheap imported arms. (most sales were in the 1930s). Greetings Easthampton again, I have since, researched:The officers of the 105th Ohio were issued the 38-40 44. Clment Charles Philibert The crown R and star P stamped on the barrel, receiver, and cylinder. this location now so you can return often. On barrel action of breech loading shotgun after the gun has passed proof with semi-smokeless powder . JavaScript is disabled. Please - no questions about your old guns. "Arsenal" or "Inspector Marks". Andr M.J. It's complete. Christophe & Montigny Belgium Infantry Arms List (Current and Former Types) - Military Factory thanks for the help so far. Bernard Victor & Cie is about 30 cm X 22 cm (11.80" X 8.60"). Purchased by Val Forgett of Navy Arms in 1978. Belgian Proof Marks Help Needed - The Snipe Hunting Forum that we have found on this subject. Get this product now as it would not last, Contract - 5.56 x 45mm 62 Gr. As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". Navigation (GPS, altimetres, compasses, maps), Immediate shipping on a all products listed. (Six volumes by alphabetical order), Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1. Midway USA sells a CO2 kit to unload both flint and percussion guns.Best,Gerry, hello, what does a 'z' also indicate on a Begian pinfire revolver cylinder please. The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . Comblain Hubert Joseph Dallas, Donald. Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. Clment-Neumann thank you. CLEMENT, J. Gun Barrel Proof Marks - Dave Cushman Jun 21, 2012. Thanks! Project Upland. Counet Philippe be reproduced, in part or in whole, without the written permission of '. The "D.D. Joseph Farrell on October 27, 2020: Wish I could be more helpful! Thomas Jefferson. Rifle: Included in this lot we have a Belgian Flobert Style Warnant . "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over The British Sporting Gun and Rifle: Pursuit of Perfection 1850-1900. The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Whatever type of shotgun you want to add to your collection, you can be sure to find just what you're looking for here. I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. ]v8 >ZX 2Fu}) Email: Info@hlebooks.com Most shotguns have smoothbore barret to be able to use shells which are grouped by gauges (instead of rifles caliber) - they indicate the weight of the ammunition fired. insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of Since the evolution of the modern side-by-side and over/under hammerless shotguns in the late 19th Century, Belgian gunmakers have turned out some of the best. New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. Knowledge of commonly used military ammunition assists BELGIAN MADE, 12 GAUGE, BOXLOCK EJECTOR, 32" BARRELS, CHOKES MODIFIED & FULL, 2-3/4", BROADWAY RIB, GOLD WASHED SINGLE SELECTIVE INERTIA TRIGGER, NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY, PISTOL GRIP, .Click for more info Seller: Country Pursuits Area Code: 718 $3,895.00 ROYAL GUN, BELGIUM SXS 12GA, GI#: 102149842 Proof and Armorers' Marks - The Book of the Pistol I have pictures If you need them. Just as many muzzleloaders were converted to breechloadersthink of the Springfield trapdoor action or the British Snidermany pin-fires were converted to center-fire guns. acknowledge the testing - called "Proof Marks". http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home. 14 Designates guns with rifled chokes. European&other - Long Guns - Bolk Antiques Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. Behr Jean jacques below are samples of Proof Marks of different countries. How Foreign Guns Invaded the U.S. - Bloomberg.com The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. Birmingham had also a proof, but this test was not obligatory, and makers evaded the tests. Colot Cowboy & Old Western History Items 2/3/2023 Bargain Basement 2/3/2023 Check our Services. Designates rifled barrel. Belgium Shotguns | Pricing Guides Dictionary & Values barrel began as a means to insure its safety and integrity. I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. Baker, David J. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. carefully bound by threads. only 70 i see is the 70above the D = above where it says 20.7 i dont know what those numbers mean. Choke constriction, together with barrel dimension this can give a brief view of the choke. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 - HLEBOOKS.com On barrels of muzzleloading guns that has passed a re-enforced black powder proof. Belgium Leige - The DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. Due to the vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted . The 'z' most likely is an inspector's mark indicating satisfactory quality for this part: in this case, a revolver cylinder--that's my best guess, anyway. Forum, http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html. reference books that display proof marks and their meanings. Proof marks are the official stamps or ciphers showing that a barrel has been properly tested with the prescribed excess charges of powder and ball that allow a large factor of safety to the user. There are a number of date, serial number and property marks as well as various acceptance and - Galoppin Thanks so much. Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. Between 1847-1952 the stamp with the letter F-J C was used in the same purpose. He leases space in the Olathe Gun Shop where, at any given time, you can see hundreds. cases. Can you add any details? Flintlock fowling pieces and rifles were made for the Northwest Indian trade until the early twentieth century; so, too, percussion long guns for sale in Africa. i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. Mauser Serial Numbers DatabaseMAUSER PISTOLC-96 (BROOMHANDLE)DATES OF and BELGIUM had a glut of old, obsolete flint lock and percussion gun parts left over from years past. If 'JF' it could be Janssen Fils or Frres. In 1888 it was decided by a joint meeting of the Gunmakers Company and the Birmingham Guardians that a new supplementary proof for smokeless powder should be instituted in 1893, 1896, and 1904; the rules were further adjusted to allow for new powders. Provisional black powder proof for breech loading guns, since 1924 reserved for smooth bore barrels. Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. they were made + or - 1900 to 1930's. I have got a 19th century belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with walnut stock(116cm). BRITTE, BURY AND OTHERS Magic of hunting gun Shotguns became popular after the U.S. Army used them during the First World War while close-range fighting in trenches. The third is a plain stamp, with the letters A.V.E. Belgian Arms cie Bertrand Antoine & Fils On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. Warnant Top Break Double Action Revolver - Revivaler Underneath the whole appears the word St. Etienne. Second Variation serial numbers 707517-851751 (7,000 produced) - 708921. A Adaptive Tactical Shotguns American Tactical Shotguns B Baikal Shotguns Barrett Shotguns Benelli Shotguns Beretta Shotguns Blaser Shotguns Browning Shotguns C Century Shotguns Charles Daly Shotguns Chiappa Shotguns Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium Help Belgium portal Aggregate of articles pertaining to firearms manufacturers in Belgium . Henri Pieper (left) and Nicolas Pieper (right) Henri Pieper was born and raised in modest German home in Soest (Westphalia) Germany on Oct 30, 1840. Most specimen marks are of this nature, and it is no unusual thing to find the marks of two different smiths upon the same weapon, one man signing the lock work, the other being the barrel maker. U.S.A.Most pistols exported from the United States are not proof marked in their country of origin. It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. In some cases this cipher is also preceded by the figures 16, and followed by a capital B., also surmounted by a crown. manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a Since it reads >>Made in Belgium<< on the side of the tubes it was made for export. To my knowledge, there isn't a book out that covers European proof marks: If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information. Britte Frres The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. Firearm Proof Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks LLH (and other Belgian makers) made the tubes used by most of the U.S. double gun makers 1920s-1940s, with Siemens-Martin or Krupp (by license) steel supplied by Cockerill. "Cueruy" could be the maker. Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. Four barrel . Any help would be appreciated. Thank y'all again! It has a gold trigger and serial number starts with an x. I'm very curious as to why there is an "FN" above the serial #. The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time. Inspector's marks can not be used to establish date of manufacture; they were re-used over time and the significance of some has been lost. Other makers include Lebeau Courally and Mahillon. Ad Categories: Pre-1840. The Liege proof house was established in 1672 and it is the oldest European proof house still in operation. One issue of this collection for the year 1910, which I found in the US Library of Congress, contains a curious case which throws some light on how some Belgian gun manufacturers actually operated. A.H. Fox guns came in 12-gauge, 16-gauge, and 20-gauge. Variant of the one above, used for some month in 1894 and sometimes later on Not for ball, indicates that the barrel has choke. 1840-1860. Collings Hadelin These firearms are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. rifle,over a 12 ga. shotgun. Ad Categories: Pre-1840. Pictures would help! Applied to all gun not made in Belgium but proofed in Belgium. My uncle has this neat old revolver that he doesn't know much about Hand Guns 8 Rifles-Shotguns 2 . Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. Thanks again for the help! Old Belgian musket help | The Muzzleloading Forum What does 12 over C mean in a triangle? Coleye M. N. Liege, in Belgium, has always been celebrated for its weapons, and established its proof house as a municipal enterprise on May 10, 1672, when it was laid down that barrels should be marked with the stamp of the city, and unproved weapons might not be sold under pain of a fine of a gold florin and the confiscation of the unproved barrel. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 The text is written in French AND English. the 20th century. Boden Can you send me some, Ed? Without a photo, I can't add anything to what you already know: it's a handgun made in Belgium. Any idea what it all means? The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. The Lion Rampant over PV was applied to the Optional Supplementary Smokeless proof for shotguns in 1898. Clment Walter The family was in the barrel making business from the 1880's until mid the 1960's. http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm This is Jean-Baptiste Delcour-Dupont and his son Oscar, 1924. Information, NRA Too, seems to be an odd, long cut in the standing breech for the Greener Crossbolt. Bernard Emile & Cie Greetings Easthampton,I have been researching an old antique pistol that has been in our family for generations.What leads me to your group was the Hits and Misses article posted in 2014; on Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks (my piece has the spelling Belgium). It is located just above the circle with ELG. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 | Jan C. Still Lugerforums Belgium - Shotguns Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. Testing the gun B. Tradename on guns made in Belgium, c.1900. Ray D, STOGERS, advertised them as being made for the AFRICAN tribes to hunt with because with them they would not be able to rebel against the BELGIAN rulers who had modern arms. Mauser was a late entry in 1888. Most double shotguns represented here. Serial Numbers. Colard Louis - Counet Lonard Colleye Henri Joseph Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Brancquaert Louis Armourers marks are quite distinct from proof-marks, and comprise the private marks, ciphers, stamps, or signatures of the individual armourers or gunsmiths. Hunting, fishing, cooking, and other critical aspects of life. Due to the The second and third indicateit was proofed at Lige. St. Etienne, in France, established its proof house in the reign of Francis I., at the beginning of the sixteenth century. Makers - Darne, Merkel, Arrieta, Beretta, Browning, Holland, Purdey, Richards, Bernardelli, Parker, Fox, LC Smith, and most other double barreled shotgun, gun and double rifle makers. Your help is appreciated. The Belgian gun industry in Liege produced flintlock muskets for their African colonies until the mid-1950s.