I was the heat treater, but after HT to only 58-59 hardness the blades went to the surface grinders for finishing and I remember them going into the packing boxes with mirror polished edges. They represent the absolute best performers on the market in terms of their specific attributes. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. Ruike Sandvik 14c28n vs D2 looking at getting a nice larger flipper for a little under 100 AUD. For high wear resistance and edge retention you want a large amount of hard carbides. It doesnt hold an edge well, but its so easy to sharpen that you can get it back to razor sharpness in a few minutes. Wear resistance comes from hardness and carbides, hard particles formed between carbon and another element like Vanadium or Tungsten. When the blade gets messed up I just replace it. Its very tough and exceptionally corrosion-resistant. Ive found that most makers harden S30V too much, making it prone to chipping at the edge. 2. In other words, heat treating a steel to its maximum hardness does not necessarily mean reduced corrosion resistance. This is also a powder-metal steel produced by American steel company Crucible. Its not bad, but you can find better in the market at the same price. Steel ratings are not about ranking steels in terms of what is better than another, but understanding the different balances such as toughness vs edge retention. Another important caveat before we get to the ratings are that these are for the steel only. Also Mo additions improve corrosion resistance for a given amount of chromium. -> Maybe prequenched 14c28n could be a little tougher than AEB-L? M390 Is there a reason SG2/R2 are not included in the lineup, despite being one of the most popular ones? High toughness steels can be produced without powder metallurgy and also have low wear resistance for lower manufacturing costs. Maxamets hardness results in incredible edge retention and a nightmarish sharpening and machining experience. What it is: 14C28N is a Sandvik stainless steel commonly used in razors and kitchen knives. I am just grasping at straws here, but from the data you shared, it seems like toughness does increase faster than edge retention decreases: it is harder to get a very high edge retention knife that will still be somewhat tough compared to a very tough knife that will still hold an edge ok. ), intended use will give you all the answers. worldwide, even the chinese have an equivalent (8cr13mov). Another common heat treating choice that is not even categorized as a mistake is tempering in the high temperature regime (~1000F) rather than the low temperature regime (~400F). The ultra high corrosion resistance steels Vanax or LC200N max out around 60-61 Rc instead. On the other hand, Speed safe assisted opening allows for easy blade deployment with the use of a simple pull back on the ambidextrous flipper. Low Carbon steels like AEB-L wont hold up to wood cutting even though it can hit 64 hard, it just doesnt have enough Carbon. What makes 1.4116 such a bad performer in regards to toughness on par with ultra high carbide steel like S125V? One argument I see consistently leveled against 8Cr13MoV compared to AUS-8 is that of the consistency of the composition. 2) you do not go into the sharpening in much detail. The value being slightly different doesnt mean its an outlier or measurement error. 420 Simple, non-stainless steels of medium carbon content like 5160 also boast high toughness. Using 10 dps sharpening (20 degrees inclusive on the chart) leads to about 5x the edge retention of 25 dps. Each steel was tested with a knife that was produced just for the test, and then sharpened the same way for each test (15 dps 400 grit CBN sharpening). Hi Larrin Youve occasionally mentioned cryo treatment in your posts, including here with LC200N. Steels that are higher in hardness and wear resistance are usually lower in toughness. Here, we break down how to choose a flashlight, including best flashlight LEDs, batteries, designs, and more. Rowens heat treat on ESEE knives that use 1095 is exceptional; KA-BARs is less so. I can also say from personal experience that marine grade plywood will chaw up your saw blade and battery a lot quicker than standard plywood, but that probably says more about the glue that was used than the wood. And we list budget-friendly knives that have a professional style and grace to them. The Sandvik 14c28n steel is ideal for the manufacturing of steel knife blades. 20? Ease of sharpening refers to how difficult it is to remove material with a sharpening stone. compare different heat treats of the same component, it lacks a theoretical foundation and its not clear how to relate it to the real world. Choose a factor below to start sorting. Also known as Z-Finit, Zapp produces this steel in America. The old rule in steels used to be corrosion resistance, toughness, or hardness choose two. But SM100 (the trade name for Nitinol 60) threw that out the window when introduced to the cutlery world. Thats a pretty large difference in two budget steels that are often compared to each other. I guess the question is whether toughness increases faster than edge retention decreases. Are you familiar with anything similar on the metallurgy/knife steel side of things? VG 10 Steel, https://knifebasics.com/author/freelancer/, How To Choose Between The 14C28N And The D2, 14c28n Steel Is Good for Knife? It will take you more time and energy to get a sharp edge, but your efforts will pay off because the blades hold the edge longer. Its a good balance between all three attributes, being relatively hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. 14C28N knives offer better toughness than D2 knives. In particular, I really care about the toughness / hardness part. Both of those things are no longer an issue as I now have way too many articles and a book. For example, below is a video comparing a 1095 ESEE knife at 55-57 Rc and a MagnaCut knife at 62.5 Rc, both with the same edge angle. 14C28N is the highest-selling steel of Sandvik, a Swedish steel company. rex 121 This is a powder steel produced by American steel company Carpenter. Heres The Best Review For You (2021), D2 knife blade offers high edge retention, Dulls faster, Requires frequent sharpening. Im writing a book about choosing a knife for EDC. What would you rate the toughness of CPM-D2. As from features, for presenting d2 continue to grow in the knife industry, generally because of their working performance and reasonable price, a lot of superior low budget knives are building their reputation. Do honing steels as used on kitchen knives actually do anything useful? It's more often pitted against the VG10 since both are widely popular high-carbon stainless steel grades. We looked at common steels used by popular knife brands to help you select the right material for your blade. Corrosion is not just about cosmetics and rusting, however, but can also affect edge performance. In general, steels look worse as you go up in hardness because the toughness is reduced by more than the edge retention is increased. Its called memory metal because heat can get it to revert back to a previous shape. document.getElementById( "ak_js" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Between the assisted open, weird looking texture designs, and the stainless steel handle, the Cannonball has a lot of features I don't normally like, but even I have to admit it's a good design for the price. High wear resistance steels are more expensive to buy and to process, especially since many require powder metallurgy. 14C28N. Anyway, astute comment, but edge retention does mean a lot in woodworking. High Alloy Tool Steels and High Speed Steels. Importing steel from Europe to the USA, or vice versa, generally increases the cost. Some of these steels also have vanadium (CruForgeV) or tungsten (Blue Super, V-Toku2, 1.2519) for increased wear resistance. How do its properties compare to other steels? Most of the user loves this one that has received a lot of attention on this site. It richly deserves its reputation for high-quality gained over the years by Sandvik, a Swedish manufacturer of world-renowned steel. Below, weve listed some of the attributes you might want out of your steel and given some examples in both the more expensive powder metallurgy steels and more affordable conventionally produced steels. I personally don`t care about stainless (sic! 14c28n steel has a high Chromium and Carbon percentage. CPM 3V I did a large study of different knives with identical sharpening and edge geometry. Its used for combat knives, bushcrafting knives, and other applications where having a supertough blade trumps the need for edge retention and corrosion resistance. I have an article that lists off the major mistakes often made in heat treating. Sandvik 14C28N steel is better than D2 steel in corrosion resistance and toughness. Any thoughts how Sleipner might fare in the ratings? Although it should be noted that there doesnt seem to be a need for the stainlessness on a wood working tool. Later, it gets heated and compressed into one ingot. Very much appreciate you. Its not a regression line, it is just a line through the best steels. 14C28N is stainless steel, and its knives offer excellent rust resistance and toughness than D2 steel. Read about my tests in this article. Now 14c28n is IMO the best budget steel out there. They were two different tests (different batch of steel, different person heat treating, etc). What it is: D2 is a carbon tool steel with a relatively high chromium content, prompting some to call it a "semi-stainless" steel. The solid lockup and decent blade design make these two knives well suited for camping. looking at getting a nice larger flipper for a little under 100 AUD. European steel company Sandvik produces 14C28N, a non-powder metallurgy steel. Thanks! However, many kinds of wood are REALLY tough and very hard on blades. AEB-L and 14C28N also have moderate edge retention though of course much lower than vanadium-alloyed powder metallurgy steels like S30V or M390. As a result, there are no production knives with REX 121 steel, though Ferrum Forge used the steel early on in its custom knives and a Kickstarter knife from the Creely Brothers. Its easy to sharpen. But among the steels youll find at Cabelas and the like, this is a pretty good choice. In fact Id be delighted to have your experience checking my thinking! With conventional steels this limited vanadium additions to about 4-5%, and this was greatly expanded when powder metallurgy was developed. I couldnt find much on 5160 steel and from a knife makers point of view if you are saying youre the preferred supplier of special ops than I dont understand this choice in knife steel. A more obtuse edge angle is much more resistant to chipping than an acute edge. Here is the article by Larrin on 48 steels. So, its hard steel is easy to sharpen. See the chart below showing 52100 steel that was overaustenitized (unintentionally) by a knifemaker that sent me specimens for toughness testing. and yet millons of knives are being made out of 1.4116 (aisi 420mov?) In other words, Rex 121 would be the most difficult to sharpen and 5160 and 8670 would be the easiest. Low Alloy tool steels have small alloy additions to increase hardenability so they harden more easily in oil rather than water. worldwide, even the chinese have an equivalent (8cr13mov). Marco, BSc Chem. The most balanced is CPM-MagnaCut which is in an area all by itself on the chart. 14C28N VS S30V S30V steel provides improved corrosion resistance, sharpening ease, and edge retention. also the angle is by far the most important factor in catra testing, so such results might be irrelevant. are after the ratings. 14C28N VS Steel. you can easily buy a $500 knive made out of 14c28n, which has nothing in it besides cr and a trace of ni. https://cedric-ada-store.creator-spring.com/listing/brickard-heritage-collectionGood gravy its bricky on thingsSubscribe and hit the bell! Some steel companies charge more than others. Honestly, yes, because its perfect steel for your knife, besides it depends on which knife, so when youre talking about chef knives, then 14c28n would be an ideal pick thanks to professional corrosion resistance and edge retention. There are so many interactions between them that predictions are difficult without modeling software. The main downside is the steel is more difficult to heat treat and cant go harder than about 60 or perhaps 61 Rc. Your email address will not be published. Recommendations are welcome, If you are cutting against metal I would maybe try K390 in a Spyderco or an S110V knife if you need stainless. 14C28N is essentially AEB-L (or perhaps more accurately Sandvik 13C26), but with improved corrosion resistance. 14c28n vs D2 Steel. Non-stainless steels can be heat treated to 66 Rc or even higher depending on the particular steel. These steels are typically used by forging bladesmiths, traditional folders, and some production fixed blades. Therefore you will use it for a long time without requiring frequent sharpening. Most low alloy tool steels and carbon steels also have fine carbide structures without powder metallurgy processing. 14C28N knives offer excellent corrosion resistance and toughness. Which one is right for you? (Some crazy folks clean their Swiss Army knivesin adishwasher. Distilled water can separate steels that are stainless vs those that are not. Carbon steels are those that have primarily carbon added to them with some Mn or Si as well. Crucible intends SPY27 to be good all-around knife steel. However, there are other factors. Rather than upgrade from D2 to M4 or S30V just drop the angle from 40 degrees to 30 degrees. And Ive done a lot of experimental work on knife steels where I feel more confident in my own ratings. Heres a brief description of their impact on the resulting steels properties. Now that we know what each factor represents, we can see how the steels rank against one another. I was thinking maybe Sleipner or A2 would be best if a PM steel was out. It is a premium steel that is known for its excellent balance of hardness, corrosion resistance, and edge retention. 14C28N and D2 steel are not the same. So setting edge geometry for the type of knife and intended use is very important. 14C28N VS D2 Attributes: 14c28n: D2 . 14C28N is offered on midprice knives and is one of the better steels on a dollar-for-dollar basis. 3) catra is (as far as i know) the only accredited (iso/en) testing method. Hello everyone I've been loking into twosun knives recently. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. For these reasons D2 steel is a good for smaller folding knives, but is not ideal for large fixed blades such as dedicated choppers and large survival knives. A hunting knife has a singlepurpose: processing meat after akill. Quite an eyeopener! Its very hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. Corrosion on knife steels most usually takes the form of rust, patina, and staining. SUS410 This list is not exhaustive, so check out some of our rating tables for more information on whatever steel youre interested in. We all have our preference, but overall, preference leans towards the pocket knife with a clip. Hammering through hickory, digging at roots in sandy soil, and cutting around bone did nothing to chip, dent, or roll the edge of my 3V knives. The hardness of the carbides does not matter much unlike with edge retention. The steel is susceptible to overheating during hardening do not overheat. It can build a knife that sustains a sharp cutting edge for long periods and is sufficiently wear-resistant. Cold Steel still uses VG-1 on some knives, and, for the money, it does well. Vancron would work well in a kitchen knife. S45VN Theres also a line of green triangles a bit below that. blue steel Many steel ratings seem to over-emphasize edge retention. and yet millons of knives are being made out of 1.4116 (aisi 420mov?) Toughness is the resistance to chipping or breaking. The performance of these blades are equally admirable. Hi Larrin Your estimate of 420HCs corrosion resistance is different here than in your October, 2019 post on corrosion resistance testing: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/10/14/corrosion-resistance-testing/ Sorry about the misinformation. So you can estimate how much a change in hardness would affect edge retention by following the slope of those lines. The following are less common steels, but theyre definitely worth tracking down. However, it can be somewhat complicated because an edge can dull from many causes wear, micro-chipping, deformation, or corrosion. D2 steel does not contain enough chromium to make it stainless steel. We use a subsize, unnotched chapy test with 2.5 x 10 x 55 mm dimensions. If you are looking for a high-end knife on a budget, the varieties of both steel will serve you. Still looking forward to magnacut making it into high volume production and use. Ah ok that wasnt mentioned. It is most useful for steels with large amounts of carbide but also helps to be able to add certain carbide types. Read more. On the other hand, in d2 air-hardness steel, you cant differentially temper the blade-like other high carbon steel because the steel can also be challenging to sharpen. 14C28N steel is known to offer among the best if not the best toughness in knife steels out there. However, to choose the best knife for you must consider all the properties, including toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. I just want to thank you for all the work you do for the community and the world at large. I see very little about cryo outside of journal articles, and I wonder which knifemakers use it. Also D2 is not stainless as at least 5% of its chromium is tied up in carbides where it doesnt help prevent corrosion. I wrote an article about knife steel ratings available online in 2018, where I concluded that none of them were very good. This is to keep the focus on the elements that are making the biggest difference. how much more can you bend/pry with it? But it doesnt have great wear resistance and thus doesnt hold an edge particularly well. Both steel types don't chip easily, but 14c28n steel is easier to sharpen. This is a non-powder steel produced by American steel company Carpenter. Both knives come at an affordable price for high-end knives. Spyderco and Cold Steel have used it, though Cold Steel recently switched to S35VN due to availability concerns. INFI is also quite hard and sharpens easily. D2 knives offer higher edge retention than 14C28N knives, which is attributed to the high carbon elements and hardness of D2. By signing up for email newsletters, you agree to GearJunkie's, Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to email a link to a friend (Opens in new window). show very different and even inversed behaviour (e.g. The knife does dull faster. D2 is another medium-range tool steel. Vanadium carbides are very large with conventional production of steels but are very small with powder metallurgy. Steels 7Cr and below arent worth your time or money. The vivid patterns visible in Damascus steel come from the acid etching process in a ferric chloride solution. Is there some way we might predict the relative "effective toughness" of different steels at different hardness and at different edge angles? Most of the midrage ifferings have 14c28n, how does it compare to d2 in your experience? It should get an ultra-sharp edge for easy cutting, hold the edge for long for easy maintenance, and have a sturdy and ergonomic handle for comfort and to prevent accidents. A new steel from Crucible, SPY27 launched in 2020 in the Spyderco Native 5and Para 3. while its a very intuitive method and a simple way to e.g. The edge retention numbers are normalized to the hardness of the closest toughness test. Or is this an argument that tends to be rooted more in the presumption that Japanese steel > Chinese steel than any practical difference in reality? Because of the material difference, the blades differ in toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. But then if you look at an increase of 100 mm in the CATRA test from Maxamet to Rex 121 the toughness only drops 1-2 ft-lbs. There seem to be a lot of modern steels that get related to D2, but OTOH just saying a steel is similar to D2 seems to kill interest in it. Most edge retention tests isolate wear resistance or how long it takes abrasives to dull your edge in whatever youre cutting. Both steels are popular among knife manufacturers and both have their strengths and weaknesses. CRKT and Spyderco use BD1. This is the steel used in Swiss Army knives and is excellent for beginner sharpeners. But the true calling card of INFI is its insane toughness. However the 14c28n steel would be great for an EDC knife with typical usage. It would be interesting to try to develop a conversation between /geometry/edge retention/toughness, so we could say e.g. D2 steel also resists chipping better than most stainless steel types. LC200N has similar properties to those two but with saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. These images are taken from my book Knife Engineering. So for most steels they are given a rating at around 59-62 Rc, apart from a few steels that are never used at that hardness. What about K390? 1095. The biggest factor for cost of knife steel is whether it is produced with conventional ingot technology or powder metallurgy. Thanks again for everything you're doing, it's a tremendous resource. Its hard to imagine a more rust-inducing environment than saltwater and fish guts. CTS-204P and CPM-20CV are nearly identical steels made by other manufacturers. 7:00am-5:00pm, 10am-7pm Tuesday - Friday Thank you for the accurate data. Phone Hours (MST) Why do you give a coin with a knife as a gift? Despite its age, its a truly superior steel. 14C28N vs D2: Overview 14C28N steel is a high-end stainless steel created by the Swedish company Sandvik. Required fields are marked *. And steels with at least 10% chromium are probably stainless, except for several important exceptions like D2 and ZDP-189. It can dull your edge, cause pitting, and damage the structural integrity of your knife. This steel, as the name implies has a professional styling to it. I wont go into detail about those here. 420HC, 420, and 5160 all offer off-the-charts toughness. 14c28n steel and D2 steel are both high-quality knife steels. When we plot toughness vs edge retention on a log scale instead we get a straight line that is a better visualization of toughness differences. Anyway, buff up the O1v and it cuts leather easily. Though technically not a stainless steel at least 14% chromium, and D2 usually has 12% its relatively corrosion-resistant. my understanding is that wood is not a particularly abrasive material and a plane is more of a push cut action than a slicing action so I would have though edge stability and sharpness is more important than edge retention meaning ABE-L should work pretty well. In that case the difficulty in sharpening would be the inverse of the edge retention rating. The hardenable grade of titanium (Beta C Titanium) reaches up to 45 or so rc. Obviously Ill let you check the manuscript prior to publication. Poor heat treatment can make a knife too hard, too soft, hard to sharpen, easy to deform, or cause other issues. Jeff I worked at a company that heat treated D2 (1.55% C) planer blades for a company that built wood working equipment for commercial shops. Thanks to its very high hardness (64-66 HRc compared to the average of 58-62 HRc), ZDP-189 can be ground thinner and sharpened less often. . As with high alloy tool steels, the amount of vanadium can be a shortcut to predicting the general level of wear resistance and edge retention. AEB-L The claim is that they align the blades edge, pushing any slightly rolled over bits back into place and thus preserving the cutting ability of the knife for longer. If you look at the chart you may notice that at high toughness levels if you increase edge retention by only a relatively small amount you get very big drops in toughness. 1% saltwater will separate between other stainless steels. Its an anomaly in the knife world and quite puzzling to use. Ive seen more talk and some articles regarding the use of AI to come up with new potential drug molecules, polymeric materials, etc. Sure if you dont want stainless steel fine, but there are plenty other carbon steels out there much better than 5160. What carbon/tool steel would you choose for a survival knife if a PM steel was too expensive? A quick check shows the compositions of these steels are nearly identical, so based on that Id expect them to perform similarly (differences in heat treat and blade geometry aside). I mean the box cutter type, with the replaceable trapezoidal blades. third and most important is what happened to the burr. Some steels are cooked up specifically with this in mind and are very difficult to make rust. If you are a newbie to steel knives and the differences are not yet clear, come with us to the next section as we look into each knifes characteristics, pros, and cons. Should have a first draft by the end of next week. Read more. PESR would be an interesting topic too (also tied to LC200N). Theres a green triangle at about RC 60.5 and toughness over 40. They tend to be relatively expensive and difficult to sharpen, as they have high wear resistance. Note that corrosion is detrimental for the cutting edge. The study of steel is now so complex and nuanced that one can acquire a graduate degree in the subject and still learn new things every day. the following is not a critique, just a few thoughts to maybe put the relationships into a wider perspective and point to additional dimensions. Been here before? Combination of knife steel properties. The Kershaw Leek is a most popular EDC knife that design by legendary custom knife maker Ken Onion. Nitro V is also significantly cheaper than many other steels with this level of performance. These properties make steel a good choice for making kitchen, fishing, and everyday knives. . 1. On the positive side, they are very easy to forge and grind. And below shows a chart of carbide hardness, the equation we created to predict edge retention based on edge angle, hardness, and carbide volumes, and then the chart showing the good correlation: TCC (mm) = -157 + 15.8*Hardness (Rc) 17.8*EdgeAngle() + 11.2*CrC(%) + 14.6*CrVC(%) + 26.2*MC(%) + 9.5*M6C(%) + 20.9*MN(%) + 19.4*CrN(%).